Author Topic: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet  (Read 28379 times)

Guru

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2012, 12:44:33 AM »
I'm not surprised that the whole thing was continued and put into mediation.  Cases always go to mediation first and most local court rules dictate such.  This attorney is doing exactly what they are trained to do - wear you down and make you cave.  They only reason you've been to court so far is because this attorney wants to try to wear you down.  I'm not saying that because that's what happened to me, I'm saying that because I've observed the court room for many many years.  This is a very real tactic.  They will drag you to court and just continue it.  That's fine, it gives you more experience in the court room, and your ex is paying for every minute of it.

Here's what you should know: nothing in mediation is binding, the mediator cannot talk to the judge or the attorneys.  You will pay at least $100/hr to sit there.  I would suggest you go there asking the mediator for full residential custody, then "give in" and agree to 50/50.  If that doesn't pan out, just leave it be and take it back to court.  If you feel like the mediator may agree with you, and your are comfortable talking with someone on that level, you could take it back to court and request limited case management, where the LCM will actually render an opinion/recommendation to the judge.  IF it goes in your favor, the judge sides with the LCM about 95% of the time and the actual trial will be shorter (cheaper).  So this may be a good option.

I'm not sure if you are Pro Se or if you have an attorney, but if you are Pro Se, you can also play the game to your advantage.  In fact I think playing the attorney game will gain you a little better foothold on the situation down the road.  While the case is in mediation, no motions can be filed.  BUT, that doesn't mean you can't file a subpoena for business records for her income or send letters to the opposing attorney to request certain documentation.  This may sound underhanded, but running up your ex's legal bill may help you if you know what you are doing.  This can give you leverage.  In fact I've had 3 very experienced attorneys in the past tell me that a sharp, knowledgeable, and aggressive Pro Se is more dangerous than another attorney.  The reason is that a Pro Se doesn't have to save face in the court room, has the exact same legal latitude on their own case, and knows all the "issues" better because they know them first hand.  If you are Pro Se, make sure you don't downplay your advantages.

KTM

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2012, 09:51:20 AM »
So, it would appear the takeaway is twofold.... from my perspective


1. It would have been prudent to accept their offer if it was a step in the right direction with the additional statement that you would also be filing for a hearing in Court regarding the question of overnight stays. That would also have opened the door for 50/50 to be heard.

2. If you want to procede hire your own certified translator so they can't use that as an excuse to delay proceedings.

Have the person appear with you for the hearing. Instruct them not to interact or introduce to anyone until you are in the Courtroom and the hearing starts. The introduction can be made to the judge at that time if the lack of translator card is played again.

It is important to hire a Court Certified Translator or the person may be decided to be unacceptable. A Court Certified Translator should have a C.V. or Curriculum Vite which would outline their qualifications for the judge.

If their translator shows up you do not need to introduce your hired gun, They can sit silently in the gallery and listen. Later they can inform you of what the conversation between your x and her translator actually was and how accurate the translation was given to the court record.


stiwary2002

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2012, 11:53:05 AM »
A Big Thanks for your reply and suggestions herewith.

Attorney fee is not an issue to my wife as I said she has got the attorney from NGO. I believe she is not charged for these hearings.

Attorney fee is not an issue to me as well as I am pro-se taking help from one Junior attorney for court processes.

The issue here is that her attorney is doing the things in bits and pieces and it looks to me that my wife and attorney both are lying on this translator issue.

Can I sue her attorney that she is supporting my wife's lying. Because if my wife can talk to her attorney then why does she need a translator?

Also I deposited the fee of USD 150 for mediation but this gentleman said that mediation will take time and this can be done by mid of January'2013 only.

If this is so then what is that Judge going to do in our next hearing on Dec10.

I am fine on their numbers for Spousal support and child support but her attorney is saying that she is going to fight for "Supervised Visitation" and I am going to fight for 50--50.

Now my question is:

1. Is Judge going to say no change until mediation is done that means I can not bring my kids to my home?
2. Is Judge going to give supervised visitation? Although PFA was taken back by my wife and her attorney?
3. Is Judge going to say 50--50?
4. Is Judge going to give something between 50-50 and supervised visitation?

I have enough reasons for 50--50 custody:

1. Couple of weeks back my son had an injury just below his eye in the school and she did not took him to the doctor for two days and then third day when I tried to took him to the doctor, she did not let me do that. Police came and then she agreed to take him to the doctor that day.
2. Their yearly physical check up, vision and dental checkup was not done on time since I was under restraining order and she did not take the kids to the doctor.
3. My kids 90% extracurricular activities are stopped. for remaining activities they are dependent upon the mercy of coaches and other parents.
4. How come a mother can call the police on an issue to give more milk to the growing kids?
5. I want to make sure she has enough time to look for the job and later she should not be load on me.
6.My wife is habitual of running to her home country. She ran away to her home country two years back for 6 months and left me and my son alone here and also two times she told to the police officer that she wants to go back to her home country.
7. She never participated into their school or activities or even for their Green Card, Passport renewal etc.
8. She does not do driving.


I am not sure if Judge is going to consider these arguments for me or not?

Looking forward for your ideas.

Thanks a lot to give your input.

Guru

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2012, 04:43:46 PM »
I think your case will really hinge on what you and your ex have hiding in the closet, if you know what I mean.  If your past is sprinkled with criminal charges, arrests, history of violence, neglect, or any such issue, you could really be fighting a losing battle.  If the case is just a matter of he said-she said, you'll probably have a better chance.  There are many legal positions you could take on your case.  I think there is merit to what KTM said about taking the deal then following up with a motion just so you could start seeing your kids.  The longer you go, the worse it is for them and you.  As a matter of right, everyone is legally due a custody trial anyway.  So, you could take the option (I assume you still can), and you can follow that up with mediation.  However, after custody is settled, you must demonstrate a "change of circumstances" in order to change custody.  Some of these factors are black/white, others are more subjective and a creative attorney can make about anything work.  If you think this case is just going to get drug out more and more, you may be best to take the deal to get your kids, and go from there.  It also hurts your ex's case that you are abusive and a terrible father if she is offering to give you the kids.  If she was so concerned about your abusive nature, why would she offer that deal?

I'm assuming this deal was offered verbal?  If so, I'm not surprised.  Send a letter to try to get that deal in writing.  Then you have even more for your upcoming trial.  You can simply say something like "when you offered to give me parenting time for a few hours a day in court the other day, what days did your client have in mind?  I believe its important for the kids to spend time with me.  Please advise which days your client was considering, and what times."

Your listed points for shared custody, to me, are not good ones.  Most parents I talk with are upset and spend way too much time bashing the other parent and nearly no time bolstering their own abilities and benefits to the kids.  As such you come off looking more like a vindictive, upset parent instead of a good-hearted, level headed, and reasonable parent.

I think your reasons should look more like:
- I've traditionally been the parent to take the kids to school, and my schedule is flexible enough to do that.  I love to do it.
- I used to play soccer and had started working with my daughter to play soccer. She now cannot share that time/bond with me.
- I am a stickler for the rules and honesty. I want to make sure my children are brought up with the same values.  Its important to me.
- My son is old enough, that he needs a positive male role model.  Without a consistent role model. I've always been there for him, and now that has been ripped away, leaving him deprived.

You see how these statements nearly always start with "I" or deal with "me?"  When you spend so much time focusing on how bad the other parent is, you forget how important your role is.  Don't lose sight of that.



KTM

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2012, 11:26:43 AM »
Guru,

Points of correction (?)
I believe what was offered was supervised visitation.
Everything is verbal until accepted, than put in writing and filed with the Court or told to the Judge in a hearing and agreed by both sides present.

Stwary2002,

Because Legal proceedings are serious with long lasting consequences and often use terms not used in every day speaking the Court has an obligation to make sure that a non native English speaker has the opportunity, if requested, to hear everything in their native language. The entire thing... ALL rulings may be thrown out on appeal if the person states this was not done and they did not understand everything and the implications. If you were in another Country, wouldn't you want the same privilege?

FatherOfMyKids1

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2012, 11:05:44 AM »
to stiwary2002,

Something that worked in my case was the judge (a fair judge) point blank asked her on the stand a series of questions such as, "Did <father> ever threaten physical harm to you or the children".   She (Ex-wife now) answered "NO" on all questions even after she used every resource SRS, Family Crisis, Police etc to take the kids and hide.  Not even my attorney had the nerve to ask or even suggested that we ask that - but he SHOULD HAVE.  If YOU/SOMEONE ARE not GUILTY of abuse, then ASK HER ON THE STAND and tell your attorney that you are not playing like you are guilty.  Your attorney will assume you are guilty of abuse in every manner.   What that did is very powerful:  it forced her to do an Admission of Fact on the record.  At that point, the judge was fair to us both and we share 50-50 parenting time (and of course joint custody). 

Just for the curious, as you might be wondering why she took kids and hid out and came back.  She didn't come out of hidding, rather the Missing Children's Dept using every resource nationally, found them two days before her Mom was scheduled to travel half way around the world to where my Ex's home country.  About out of legal ammunition, my Ex eventually started to say it was "verbal abuse", but Expert Child Abduction witness said, "Parental Child Abduction" ON THE RECORD.  That is a Federal Crime and your local District court won't touch that one and your local attorney won't even bring it up.  I'm Pro Se now and will stay that way.

KTM

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2012, 08:47:58 AM »
FatherOfMyKids1,

The area of Parental Child Abduction is a Legal specialty.

There is an attorney well known for that here in the state of Kansas, based in Johnson County and I have used his services.

There are appropriate Legal Resources available if someone is in need of help. It has not appeared to be an element of the case presented in this chain.

stiwary2002

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2012, 09:25:37 PM »
Hello Friends,

@KTM -- Can you tell me the attorney name as I am scared that my spouse can run away to her home country in near future.

Also to let you know that there is no criminal legal cases against me. There were false police reports made by my spouse and at last she filled PFA while putting my daughter in front. This was done with a long planning with the other feminist lady, friend of her.

My mediation date is confirmed to end of Dec and will continue January next year. This mediation will keep going on and this is fine.

My only question is that What Judge is going to do on Dec12 for child custody, I mean parenting time to me? I am not getting this and my attorney also says this all depends upon the judge.

Can you guys guess on this part?

My guess is that Judge should give me One night a week and every alternate week end till Mediation is confirmed.



KTM

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2012, 02:57:29 PM »
Stiwary2002,

The attorney I am aware of in Johnson County Kansas and has special expertise in the area of Parental Child Abduction is attorney Ronald Nelson in Lenexa, KS.

Ask about what is called a limited representation basis. This means that he will only represent you on the matters upon which you both agree. If this type of contract is not put into place any Court filing on your behalf would make him your general attorney for which any party could contact him on any legal matter concerning you and run up your bill.

He would also be available to answer any of the questions you have posed here. He is thorough in his explanations.

stiwary2002

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2012, 12:14:43 PM »
Thanks KTM. This attorney is very very expensive. But I will talk to him on your idea to him and see if that works out.

Also my attorney spoke to my wife's attorney and tried to do some bargain on Child access. The other attorney is threatening to my attorney that she will reopen the PFA case. I do not understand what does this mean? They filled the PFA and then took it back and now threatening to re-open that again.

Looks like they are making fun of court and the processes.

Do you have any idea what does re-open of PFA mean to them? How they can do this?
Your thoughts on this are highly appreciated.


Guru

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2012, 03:09:32 PM »
I believe if the PFA was voluntarily dismissed, it is dismissed.  They would have to file for another one.  Sounds to me like maybe your attorney lacks experience and the PFA is being used a leverage, as I've mentioned before.  I would imagine this kind of thing happens all the time.

Do you have a filed court order with your case number indicating that the PFA is dismissed?  If so, I don't think a judge would sign another one unless there was a hearing on it.  I know I sure as heck wouldn't sign one right after the previous one was voluntarily dismissed.

stiwary2002

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2012, 03:28:04 PM »
We do have the copy of court order that stays "Both parties agree to dismiss the case".

My spouse's attorney is just threatening telling all this non-sense, which is not making any sense to me. Can we put this statement in front of the judge telling that other side attorney is threatening to us.

She brought this statement when my attorney was talking to her about a logical child access to me. She is rigid on "Supervised Visitation".

KTM

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2012, 03:32:53 PM »
Stiwary,

It sounds like caution is being proposed on behalf of your children. Just go with it. There are other ways than a PFA for your wife's attorney to get the same result from the judge. This may cost you valuable time and money only to lead to the same cautious result. Threatening Court actions is part of the Legal process. That is one reason it is difficult to be Pro-Se. You do not know what is a real concern and what is accepted practice vs. intimidation. Do not let your self be provoked into an argument that will drag things out further.

Just go with what they are asking. Supervised visitation. This is a temporary process which allows the Court to observe that you are a parent who is not harmful to your children, that they are not afraid of you and will do well in your care without third party observation. This is no different than the process every parent who has a child in the hospital Intensive Care Unit goes through before their child is discharged to go home with them. It is an important part of the Court's responsibility to make sure your child/ren are safe and feel safe with you and mom.

The process lasts a temporary pre-determined amount of time. Then, the observation reports can be filed with the Court as evidence of your relationship with the child/ren. The next step is to ask the Court to award you unsupervised visitation & overnights and a parenting plan that works with your schedule.

If the child/ren do have distress or problems while with you alone, the process allows them to get counseling to help with the transition. Keep in mind that the goal is for you to have what would be considered a normal parenting relationship with your child/ren so long as you do not sexually or physically abuse them.

My experience is that most effective attorney's in Johnson County charge between $150-250 per hour with a minimum deposit of $5-10 thousand dollars for a high conflict (more complicated) case like what you have presented here. Attorney Ronald Nelson may charge a bit more because he has expertise that no one else has. But, some give free or discounted consultations so that you can both determine if the relationship between you will work and the goals you have are achievable.

Guru

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2012, 03:53:02 PM »
From my perspective this is all intimidation, and Mom wanting to be in full control.  If there is no reason for Dad to have supervised visitation, then there's no need to do it.  A PFA doesn't mean a parent is not a good parent.  It may simply mean he/she doesn't get along well with the other parent.  Why shouldn't Mom have supervised visitation?  Who says she's not abusive  or neglectful to the kids?  Is someone keeping tabs on her?  It seems to me that your ex is only trying to make sure parenting is as difficult as possible for both you and the kids.

I can respect KTM's, conservative, opinion here.  I just know that if it were me, I would never agree to put my kids through the process of supervised visitation, and I would be immediately filing to change the temporary court order.  I would also hold that tactic against her in court as trying to minimize contact with me, which is not conducive to a good, quality relationship with the kids.  If she is willing to go to that length to ensure dad doesn't have access, what else is she willing to do?  A good parent would be reasonable.  If there were a documented history of abuse to the kids, or SRS had a file on the family, that would be completely different.  It seems the abuse started when the divorce papers were filed.  Seem ironic?  I think not.

Everyone's case is different, and everyone reacts differently.  Just make a choice you can live with.

This is the time when you need to document all of your concerns, issues, and experiences.  Keep track of dates, times, where, how..... These things will be useful to you later (maybe years) down the road when you are back in court.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 02:08:39 PM by Guru »

stiwary2002

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Re: How Child support can be decided, if child custody is not confirmed yet
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2012, 11:08:39 AM »
This was another bad day for me. Judge ordered higher nbr for Temporary Support but said that this motion is only for Temporary support. If you want child custody then file another motion for that. This way I did not got anything.