Author Topic: 50/50 Primary Residential Custodian  (Read 8689 times)

dadoffour

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50/50 Primary Residential Custodian
« on: October 28, 2011, 10:27:48 PM »
I have 50/50 custody of my 10 yr old daughter and am designated as the primary residential custodian. However, mother has been voluntarily unemployed for my daughter's entire life and has been living off whatever guy is willing to pay for it. Her current boyfriend recently gave her enough money to hire an attorney and she took me to court for child support. I was previously ordered to pay $0 as an agreement between us. I have since gotten engaged and had two more kids and have been able to afford a bigger and nicer house so of course she gets jealous and decides she wants some of my hard earned money. I had been voluntarily giving her $200/month and splitting the costs of my daughter's gymnastics with her (about $400/mo total). The outcome of our case was that I now pay her $600/month but am no longer responsible for paying ANY extracurricular costs. My atty argued that this is what the child support is for (what a concept right?). Thoughts on this? It sounds like the 2012 guidelines will make it so that expensive extracurriculars will be calculated into the support amount? Also I obviously only got the 20% adjustment, even when I have my child 50% of the time. Ridiculous how it is even legal to do that to us parents.

Guru

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Re: 50/50 Primary Residential Custodian
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2011, 08:02:52 PM »
Sorry for the crap you've been through - many of us have and it's not fun.

I'll try to provide some clarification, but I highly recommend following some of the links posted on this site to see for yourself exactly what will be changing with regard to shared custody and extracurricular activities.

Shared custody: Right now shared custody parents receive a 20% discount for caring for their child 1/2 the time. Personally, I think this is like a slap in the face.  In fact the documents and analysis done by users on this site suggested nearly 2 years ago that this should be closer to 75% credit.  As a result of the latest committee meetings a new method will be adopted for parents who don't agree to share direct expenses.  Do the child support worksheet.  The higher income earner is responsible for a higher child support amount, the lower income earner, a lower amount.  Take the high minus the low, and divide by 2.  This compensates the lower wage earner for the fact that one parent has worked their tail off to have a better life.  So, the more you make, the more you'll pay (no difference here).  But, if you're not agreeing to share expenses, then you'll pay either 13%, 15%, or 18% of the total child support value from the tables in addition.  This results in a 45% to nearly 80% adjustment for some cases, which is definitely getting closer to reality

Extracurricular: there is a new paragraph written about "extraordinary expenses" it calls for the higher income parent for every case to pay for 100% of all the high-cost activities, like premier sports.  I have no idea what the heck this means, and I can tell you from reading the public and attorney surveys submitted by Kansans, no one knows and it will likely be a VERY gray area.  I would fight this every step of the way.  If competitive sports has been "ordinary" for your child for the last many years, and kids in your income bracket do them, there's nothing "extraordinary" about it.  This section is actually rolled right into the "special needs" category, so I really don't know why this ended up getting passed, but it did.

So, in your case, you should pay the money for now, but after the 2012 guidelines become effective, find a change of circumstances (child age, different costs, different incomes, etc.) and file to change your CS.  Do not include sports or anything else.  Ask for the additional 2% reduction too because, trust me, you will be buying your own clothing at your house.  You should ask her to reimburse you for clothing for the next 6 months and document that she doesn't reimburse.  Then show the court that you've been buying your own stuff (keep receipts).  You'll then pay (high-low)/2 + 11% or 13% or 16% of the child support table number depending on your income.

Complicated and hard to explain - sorry

dadoffour

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Re: 50/50 Primary Residential Custodian
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2011, 10:04:52 PM »
Her gymnastics is not currently calculated into the worksheet. Mother was trying to get me to pay child support + half for gymnastics (her fiancé paying for half apparently) but the hearing officer ruled in our favor and used the worksheet we proposed. She was too lazy to appeal within the 14 days. we also each pay for clothing at each house separately. My child lives one week with me, the next week with her mom. We used at 20% parenting time adjustment...is that the max allowed? I think you should get 50% adjustment if you have your child 50% of the time!! It is unfair for a lazy parent to reap the benefits of the hard working parent! No incentive for the bums and mooches of the world to work!

Also can you please explain the clothing reimbursement? As stated earlier my daughter just has clothes she keeps there and clothes that she keeps here. I guess for all intents and purposes I'm paying for her clothes there assuming her mother uses the support for her.

Guru

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Re: 50/50 Primary Residential Custodian
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 06:58:34 PM »
Well, sports and other extracurricular activities are already covered in the basic child support figure, so the HO did the right thing.

If you think about it, if you have your kid half the time, you should not get a 50% reduction, you should get a 100% reduction.  That's because both parents should be responsible for providing at their own home.  However, there are some expenses that don't go with the child, like school, sports, etc.  These costs should just be split up the middle.  These amount to about 20% of the total child support figure from the tables.  Just put it all on paper and you'll see what I mean.

Another common misconception is that Mom should be able to support the kids on the child support.  That's a bunch of crap.  Mom should have to dig in her pocket too to support the kids.  She gets upset when she has to do that and that's exactly why they file motions to increase support.

You and most other paying parents do the exact same thing with clothing.  You pay for them at Mom's, then you pay for them at your house too.  Not fair!  The new 2012 guidelines have a provision that if you are each providing your own clothing, you get a 2% adjustment.  Normally, higher incomes parents pay the other 18% of the total child support amount for "direct expenses."  But DE includes clothing right?  So if you are both providing your own clothing, there needs to be a further adjustment.  I fought the committee long and hard about this, and they finally agreed that, yes, there should be an additional 2% credit.  So then you'd pay 16% of the tabled value as DE.

KTM

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Re: 50/50 Primary Residential Custodian
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 04:44:34 PM »
I do not know whether to say there are good points made here or to say this is a shameful discussion.

Bottom line. This is value discussion about what the children we give life to are entitled to.

Two parents contributed to creating this life. What do you want for your child/ren?

Maybe we need to start with the established relationship between the parties before the child was conceived and set the standard from there.

Lets say a child is conceived with a stranger on a one night stand..... what is the child entitled to? $100 per month? (sarcasm)

Let's say parents who were married for 10 years prior to conceiving a child divorce 10 years later and one parent was the stay at home primary caregiver for the children of that marriage. What are those children entitled to? I would advocate that they are entitled to have as close as possible to the same parenting as before the parents divorced.

I believe that the current Child Support guidelines are simply designed to keep the children out of poverty and prevent reliance on the state or federal government to support them. That certainly is in the best interest of your children and there is a term limit. 18 years.

bob

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Re: 50/50 Primary Residential Custodian
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 06:14:57 PM »
I think we'll see extreme differences in opinion from those who pay CS vs. those who receive CS.  From my side of the fence though, I think that when you have two parents making dang near the same wage, both having the kids the same amount of time, and both being granted the same opportunities, there should be very little child support.  My kids are in public schools and I can tell you the costs to enroll them and for lunches are very small.

I always go back to the first post to make sure I keep on topic, so it seems dadoffour wants to know if the extracurricular activities are included in child support.  I guess I don't know that's even a question for us, but rather for those who know the math behind the guidelines.  I know Guru is well versed on this, but the child support committee is the ones who determine the numbers.  After searching around this site, I found a post from Guru which is a supreme court ruling that child support already accounts for extracurricular activity expenses.  So, dadoffour, I guess there's your answer.  I guess you should just print that and take it to court with you.  I personally tend to agree with this as well.  If this is already rolled into the CS numbers, why would we ask a paying parent to pay even more?  Just doesn't sound right to me.

KTM

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Re: 50/50 Primary Residential Custodian
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 06:46:52 PM »
Bob,

dadoffour did touch on an extracurricular activity that the child he is paying support for is involved with. But, I don't believe that was the entirety of his issue.

It is my understanding that the Courts have ruled that extracurricular activity expenses are not included in the past Child Support calculations unless specifically addressed in that case because they are not essentially necessary or reasonable expenses.

However, many parents were unable to agree as to how the child's extra activity expenses were to be split and there were conflict when it came to collection of funds spent. This may be why there is a specific provision in the 2012 rules to allow for their consideration.

In my case, Dad paid for activities that he wanted the children to do, i.e. soccer, Horseback riding, Golf Lessons, Tennis Lessons and mom paid for things Dad would not support, i.e. Youth Orchestra, Music Lessons, Academic Tutoring, Space Camp, Swim Team. Sometimes Dad would offer to split the cost of an activity and reimburse mom. Regardless, everything mom paid for came out of Child Support anyway. But, our conflict was over time too. Dad would not agree to the children participating in any activity on his parenting time.

Again, what is in the best interest of the child? If Dad & I did not agree than I paid for it and it was on my parenting time. Unfortunately, that meant that on Dad's weekends the kids missed out on Cub Scouts events and Concerts.

bob

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Re: 50/50 Primary Residential Custodian
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 08:19:46 PM »
KTM,

Your situation sounds somewhat balanced.  Speaking from my point of view, things have not been quite so balanced.  I don't agree that when there's conflict, just throw more money at the situation and give the child(ren) every opportunity under the sun.  That creates the exact scenario that has been and will be further discussed where kids of divorced homes have more opportunity than those from intact homes.  That is precisely the case and when that occurs, it is a complete failure of the guidelines.  Members on this forum has argued time and time again that over providing for a child is equally as detrimental as under providing.  However, coming from those who receive support, it's difficult to see both sides.

chewie19741

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Re: 50/50 Primary Residential Custodian
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2017, 11:59:36 PM »
well courts are conflicting...courts cant say they have the child best interest yet throw a father in jail for non payment. Obviously keeping a relationship with the kids is more important than money but yet the court system does the opposite. I can see if it is a father who does not want to see the kids and doesn't pay, but for me making 9.33 an hr at 40 hrs. That just pays my bills. Adding the child support takes another 40 hrs from my time with kids out of the little time I get them. I will need to work another job or live out of my car. Then of course I cant see my kids because I don't have a place. Kansas courts don't care about children, full of crap.

Guru

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Re: 50/50 Primary Residential Custodian
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2017, 04:35:30 PM »
Logical position.  Something obviously needs to change.