Hello again,

I should note that in our 'property agreement and separation agreement' that it says under 'custody' we have joint legal and residential custody. of said children. It also says "wife however shall be designated as the party to have primary placement of said children."  Under the Child support section is says this -->"Mother shall be the parent designated to pay the direct expenses of the children."

In the parenting plan it says under child support again -->"Mother shall pay the guideline "direct expenses" of the minor children.

So, I am just wondering if this means she my X is responsible for sports fees, uniforms ,etc. along with education, lunch fees, etc.

Thank you for any help you can give me. It is so much appreciated.

Thank you GURU,

Only been divorced since Feb 1st, 2013.
My X so far has paid for school fees and my sons baseball registration fees. I don't have an issue as of now.
But . . . she sent me an email earlier today saying that "baseball is not a direct expense, rather an an extra curricular activity".
He is on a competitive team in Kansas, but they only traveled one time this summer to Dodge City, KS.
I paid for the hotel on that trip. She did not come on the trip.

I think she reacted before she calmed down. I have my kids this week. They are 12 and 15. Last week I explained to them that in December when our cell plan contract is up that I cannot afford to keep paying for the phones. I am dropping the kids. Well, they did a no-no and called their mom today asking her to pay for the phones starting in December. That made her mad. They called without me knowing and so my x thought that I put them up to it and put her on the spot. My 12 year old only has a phone because my x left the phone when she divorced me. I am stuck in the contract til December so we both agreed to let our 12 year old use it. Otherwise we are wasting the money of that phone.

She also said that "child support doesn't even cover half her rent not to mention utilities and food."
Like it is suppose to cover everything. She almost makes as much money as me. She has made more than me in the past when she gets a bonus.
I wish there was a way to find out if she gets a bonus each year.

I appreciate the help! This site is so awesome and informative.

Thank you again GURU!

I really don't think things are coming to a boil. I can see how it might look that way though.
I explained to the kids we are fine $ wise, but I would save alot of money by not keeping all the cell phones.
Hoping their mom would do the right thing and pay for them. If she doesn't I will have to at least keep my daughter on a phone.
I don't want my 15 year old without a phone when she is starting to do some activities with friends alone.
Funny how the world changes from when I was a kid. lol.

So, I am confused now a little about whether she is responsible for my sons baseball.
I am fine with paying child support as long as my X keeps paying sports, school and clothing.

In your last email you said "But extracurricular activities are definitely NOT included in direct expenses - they are included in indirect expenses."
So is baseball an indirect expense and is my X by default suppose to pay that?

I would appreciate any guidance.

Hi Lovemykids,

I will try to answer your question the best I can and from my own point of view.  Firstly, the Kansas child support guidelines are based on the income shares model.  This economic model assumes the family is intact/married.  All costs assumed by such intact family are then determined from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics (http://www.bls.gov/) consumer survey data.  The latest guidelines data is actually from 2008 surveys.  The USDA data is modified for children in the household, income taxes, and what is called the "dissolution burden" along with a few other factors.  These adjustments attempt to normalize incomes from both parents and are then used, when multiplied by the respective income proportions, to determine each parent's financial contribution to the family.

So, your question is whether extracurricular activities such as baseball are included in child support in the basic child support amount.  In short, yes I believe these are included in your child support amount.  However, as Guru mentioned, a new provision in the 2012 guidelines allows for "extraordinary expenses" which include certain "high cost" sports.  I believe every case may be unique in this regard, but in general, I don't think it was presumed normal extracurricular activities are included as "extraordinary."  Rather, these costs are already included in the basic child support amount.

Reference page 2, section II.A of the current child support guidelines:

"The purpose of child support is to provide for the needs of the child. The
needs of the child are not limited to direct expenses for food, clothing,
school, and entertainment. Child support is also to be used to provide for
housing, utilities, transportation, and other indirect expenses related to the
day-to-day care and well-being of the child."

If I remember correctly, extracurricular expenses are gathered by the national survey in the entertainment category.  So I would assume they are included in the guidelines.

Also, on page 20, section IV.E.4

"Extraordinary expenses of the child are items exceeding the usual and
ordinary expenses normally incurred, including but not limited to, the cost
of private school, premier sports, advanced instruction or performance
related expenses in the arts, which are not considered elsewhere in the
support order or in computations of the worksheet. The court shall have
discretion to award extraordinary expenses so long as they are
reasonable."

In my family and in nearly all families I have met, extracurricular activities are very normal and even competitive sports are extremely common.  Expenses for competitive sports do not seem to far surpass those for recreational sports.  Therefore, I believe nearly any sport commonly practiced by children in your region to be fully included in the basic child support amount.

The word "premier" has created a bit of controversy from Kansas attorneys and judges because of its lack of definition.  If you refer to the committee meeting minutes, you will find the committee had a difficult time with this section of the guidelines.   
http://kschildsupportforum.com/meeting-agendas-and-minutes/june-24-2011-committee-meeting-minutes/

There are plenty of other meeting minutes provided on this website at which I was either personally present or was present via teleconference.

For reference to the USDA report please see:
http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/CRC/crc2009.pdf
Other years' expenditure data can be found here: http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/expendituresonchildrenbyfamilies.htm

I hope this helps.  I intend to promote further changes to the guidelines in the coming years to ensure the amount of child support paid in Kansas is fair to mom, dad and the kids, so please keep us informed of your progress and status.

Brian Mull

KTM,

Are you telling us that in Johnson County judges are ordering child support payors to pay for extracurricular activities such as recreational YMCA basketball, soccer or baseball in addition to the child support award?  If so, how is the amount being decided?  Is the amount included in the monthly child support award?

I read through the references Mr. Mull posted.  The USDA report does mention that expenses include "sports equipment."  This USDA report is listed as one of the referenced sources for the guidelines.  Further, the guidelines state that child support is to be used for indirect expenses related to the day-to-day care and well-being of the child.  So your interpretation of that is what, exactly?

Have you read through the consumer survey data and the committee meeting minutes to ensure extracurricular activities have been subtracted from the  data or that they were not considered?  As I recall, the committee used what they called "aggregate" data which includes any and all expenses by a family.  I've read all of Mr. Mull's documents and I think what he's trying to say is that since families usually incur those expenses, they are already included in the child support values in the guidelines (it was in the consumer survey data).

Could you provide us with references like Mr. Mull did to support your opinion?

Guru,

In reply to your questions about how the the Kansas Child Support guidelines are interpreted by the Courts I need go no further than to quote and repost part of my initial posting to Mr. Mull.

"If Child Support calculations are intended to include responsibility for the recipient to pay all or any of the costs for extra curricular activity expenses than a reasonable statement upon consideration of all the statistical evidence used by the Child Support committee would be to state a specific percentage of Child Support is designated for such a purpose. Otherwise there is no reasonable way to have the Child Support recipient be accountable for any or all extra curricular activity expenses."

However, the statement or provision given above is a step beyond what powers the law (Kansas statutes 60-16) give to the Courts. In fact the law gives specific powers to the Courts in that they May make certain provisions through Orders and others are under the Courts discretion. That is unless they are specified within the Kansas Child Support Guidelines (KSA 38-2277).

For further clarification I will add that it is clear under Kansas Legal statutes that Child Support recipients must provide 100% of food, clothing, shelter & education for any child while in their care. There is no such clarity regarding the cost of those provisions and no such designation given to the requirement to provide extra curricular activities unless otherwise specifically Ordered by the Court or upon agreement of the parties and affirmation of the Court in the Divorce Decree or Child Support Order or some other related Court Order. (KSA 38-1121)

Clothing could be free to the provider from charity or friends hand me downs. Food could come from the local food bank, charity or food stamps. Education could be home schooling at a very low cost. Shelter could be a studio apartment in an impoverished neighborhood. OR the other extreme end of the spectrum. It is my understanding that the provision for extraordinary expenses was established to address the things that most children do not have access to and/or to continue to provide the same level of lifestyle for the children of a divorce that either leaves two parents at opposite ends of the financial spectrum. Splitting the costs between the parents for expensive non essential (above average) aspects of a child's life more equitably between the parents based upon their income levels.

Health care is generally provided by one parent and they are given credit for that under the current Child Support calculations. Additionally, the Court is given discretion to add provision as to how costs not paid by the insurance company are to be paid by the parents.

Whether or not a child participates in an extra curricular activity, what it is and how much it costs is under the discretion of the parent in charge unless specified in the Parenting Plan (KS 60-1625). Child Support is established in orders of the Court based upon the parenting plan. One parent can not require the other to have the child participate in the activity on the other parents parenting time. The activities and level of involvement will change by season, age, skill, talent, health, availability and numerous other factors. The Courts can not mandate the child's participation nor is it reasonable that they make a parent pay for an activity they do not want their child to participate in. The parents must agree upon the activity, schedule and costs.

As I understand it the provision for extraordinary expenses as considered within a Child Support Order would only be used to financially consider a continuing expense and how the extra costs of that activity effect the Child Support burden. I can understand why it would be difficult for the Courts to interpret the use of such a provision. How can any judge reasonably be expected to predict future participation and future costs?

It would however be reasonable to assume that additional provision (extraordinary expense provision) would be required for Child Support recipients to pay for private school costs which are above the normal cost of public school in continuation of a child in attendance or upon agreement of both parties because the Child Support recipients are legally required to pay for educational costs. The Law requires such a provision be made for the Child.

In my case the Court requires us to annually file a parenting plan which includes the activities upon which we agree the children will participate. If we do not agree upon how they will be paid for than we do not have an agreement that the child(ren) will participate in those activities.

Mr. Mull,

It is my understanding that separate provisions made for extra curricular activities other extra ordinary expenses and how the costs would be dived and paid are stated in the Courts Orders individualized for each case based upon the parenting plan. These would not be included in the Child Support calculations. These provisions would be in the Divorce Decree or in an Order resulting from a hearing.

If all "family expenditures" have been included than a statement of fact as to which expenses are to be included and which parent holds what percentage of responsibility for those "expenditures" would wisely be included in the Child Support Guidelines in order to end this debate and add clarification for the Courts.

If dad & I did not have to come to an agreement for each activity and I had to pay for everything out of Child Support my children would not have had nor will they have at least 1/3 of the opportunities for special activities as they do now. The costs would be prohibitive since my total income is 6% of his.

Providing the specific data to the Court would likely be extremely helpful as they would be able to compare the data from the Child Support Guidelines to the factual information contained within the parties DRA document and make appropriate adjustments.

Thanks for your feedback KTM.  So my main question to you was if you know of specific cases where the johnson county courts were ordering extracurricular activities in addition to child support.  It sounds as if you know of only your personal case?  Are there others so we could affirm that johnson county usually orders extracurricular activities in addition to child support?