Author Topic: Direct expenses Clarification  (Read 25922 times)

Stepdadinneed

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Direct expenses Clarification
« on: January 12, 2014, 08:42:56 PM »
I am looking for some guidance defining direct expenses in Johnson County.  My wife and her ex-husband share 50% custody of the children and used to have a shared expenses plan.  At the most recent support modification, he had the shared expense plan removed and my wife is now responsible for all direct expenses (with separate wardrobes).  Medical expenses are still shared with some disputed information

Since the new agreement, he has chosen to basically pay for NOTHING.  I understand the basics of the direct expenses but can not find definition of some aspects. My wife and I have no desire to constant court battles and attorney fees, but do want to be sure of his obligations outside the direct expenses.

Questions:
1-  Is school lunch covered under direct expenses?  Are we to pay for lunch at school when children are in his custody?
2-  Are cell phones considered direct expenses?
3-  Is an automobile and insurance for a 16 year old considered common direct expense?
           If so, what is our liability while car/ driver are in his custodial care?
4-  With separate wardrobes, are shoes and coats considered wardrobe or direct expenses?
5-   Does proportion of medical payment automatically correspond with income percentage?
       Recently ratio went from 60:40  to 70:30 and he is refusing to adjust medical payment proportion without an additional court order.

any general guidance regarding these issues would be greatly appreciated :)

Step Dad In Need

Guru

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Re: Direct expenses Clarification
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2014, 11:52:48 PM »
My answers below.

1. yes and yes
2. cell phones should be agreed upon by both parties.  If not, the party wishing the child to have a phone would buy it.
3. page 84 of the guidelines does list car insurance as a direct expense, so yes I believe the person responsible for direct expenses should pay for that.  Remember that driving is a privilege and not a right.
4. technically, yes I think both would have to be provided to both homes, however, I don't believe that is typically the practice.  Usually only one coat is purchased.
5. he is obligated to pay consistent with his income ratio which was ordered previously.  If it has changed, he is not necessarily responsible to pay anything more.  He has been ordered to pay a certain amount (60%).

In general, it sounds as if you feel you are being short changed by having to provide all of the direct expenses?  But, from what I see if your questions, dad is simply informed of the issues and is doing what he is supposed to do.  Direct expenses is a bit of an issue for many parents quite frankly due to the vague definition included in the guidelines.  The committee recommends that most people just designate one parent pay for everything.  I suppose to them it seems to be easier for everyone.

Do you mind sharing what the dollar amount of child support is we are talking about and for how many children (and age)?

KTM

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Re: Direct expenses Clarification
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2014, 10:46:14 AM »
1. Your X is not responsible to feed your children while they are in your care. School lunches are to be paid by the respective parents on the day they drop their child off at school. Due to conflict over this matter in my case we each pay cash directly to the child on a per diem basis.

2. I think that Cel Phones are still considered to be a luxury item and not a "direct expense".
See this other chain of conversation from this website for more information: direct expenses
« on: September 22, 2013, 09:14:50 PM »

3. Driving is a privilege and I do not believe it's associated costs are considered to be a "direct expense". This is an opportunity for a child to learn responsibility and economic costs by getting their own source of income to pay for the privilege. All teens in all income brackets do not have the right to their own vehicle nor do all families own a vehicle which is why I do not believe that it is considered a "direct expense".

4. Yes. But, your x is not obligated to reimburse you. They can choose to purchase items of any quality, including use and provide them for use at both homes. I take the position that the items belong to the children to take wherever they want and do whatever they want with.

5. If the Court did not state in your Orders specific instructions about the process for either party to collect on unreimbursed medical expenses than you are stuck without an ability to enforce the Order. If the expenses are significant enough to justify the cost of enforcement than peruse it. If not than drop it. What matters is that your child(ten) is/are healthy.

Stepdadinneed

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Re: Direct expenses Clarification
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2014, 10:56:16 AM »
GURU,
Thank you for your response and clarifications.  There are 3 children ages 15-13-10.  The child support is currently at $1100 (ish) monthly.  All 3 are very involved in extra-curricular activities and this only puts a small dent in their expenses.

More clarification:

#2- If both agree to cell phones, would they be included as a direct expense or the expense shared.
#5- sounds like it would take another court order to change his medical proportion from 60% to 70% even though the current child support worksheet verifies it is currently 70:30?

Agreed- it is the vagueness of the guidelines that is causing my concerns.


Stepdadinneed

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Re: Direct expenses Clarification
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2014, 11:24:51 AM »
Guru,  You mentioned page 84 of the guidelines.  How can I obtain a copy of the guidelines?

reading the post by KTM, it just reaffirms my confusion regarding the guidelines.  It sounds like everything is a matter of interpretation and the only way to resolve interpretation conflicts would be court order and more attorney's fees..........money that would be better spent on the children directly by both parties.

Guru

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Re: Direct expenses Clarification
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2014, 12:55:39 PM »
There is a ton of useful information in our document repository thread on this site.  A copy of the guidelines can be downloaded here: http://kschildsupportforum.com/kansas-child-support-guidelines-26/2012-kansas-child-support-guidelines-administrative-order-261/

The official download is located on the kscourts.org website.  We have copies of everything just since things change all the time and older versions are not always available for review.

Yes, there are some areas of interpretation, but I will tell you that in my experience, the courts typically view the "sample" information at the end of the guidelines as part of the guidelines.  Sample 3 does include car insurance as an expense that would typically be shared as part of a direct expense sharing agreement.  Since there is no agreement, the party receiving support typically pays everything.  I find your case to be a minority.  Most child support recipients choose not to agree to share direct expenses because they feel they come out financially ahead by taking the increased child support for direct expenses or they just find it easier.

Stepdadinneed

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Re: Direct expenses Clarification
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2014, 02:05:12 PM »
Thank you again very much for your support and guidance.   I enjoy being able to support my step children, but want to be sure their father is also providing at least his minimal legal requirement.

sounds like we are pretty close to the legal requirement and no need to run up legal fees.

KTM

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Re: Direct expenses Clarification
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2014, 05:26:22 PM »
Hmmm….

I thought from the contents of the thread posted here titled "direct expenses"« on: September 22, 2013, 09:14:50 PM »it was clear that the "experts" on this site agreed that "direct expenses" were defined by the following:

For reference to the USDA report please see:
http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/Publications/CRC/crc2009.pdf
Other years' expenditure data can be found here: http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/expendituresonchildrenbyfamilies.htm

I do not recall seeing cel phones included there as a direct expense nor teenager driving expenses.

Guru

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Re: Direct expenses Clarification
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2014, 09:10:46 PM »
KTM, I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying if it's listed in the guidelines, period, there's a very good chance a judge will entertain the idea.  Do you disagree with that?

Stepdadinneed

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Re: Direct expenses Clarification
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2014, 09:30:43 PM »
I completely understand and agree.  I can't thank you enough for pointing me in the right direction and giving some clarity to a vague situation

Guru

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Re: Direct expenses Clarification
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2014, 09:59:47 PM »
Glad we could help you in some small way - that's exactly why this site was created.

KTM

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Re: Direct expenses Clarification
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2014, 03:04:34 PM »
Guru,

I think that judges consider all arguments and evidence before making their decisions which vary on a case by case basis.

However, an example of what expenses may agree to be shared by a family will be individual and different for each family as to the type of expense and the amount of the expense. "Direct expenses" mandatorily (By Law and as such the Kansas Child Support Guidelines) paid by a Child Support recipient are, as I understand it, based upon the average child across all income brackets and are not individualized by the child's and/or family's lifestyle.