Author Topic: Child Support Guidelines and a modern day family  (Read 8666 times)

sportsnbikes

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Child Support Guidelines and a modern day family
« on: July 26, 2013, 02:14:06 AM »
Hello all.  I am writing this as a way to vent.  I am curious if anyone else out there feels the same way I do. 

My situation with child support already has me borderline in the poor house.  Now, depending on her new income, I could potentially pay a lot more. 

Here is my story.

I have 2 children who my ex-wife has residential custody of.  I have custody of my oldest son from a different mother.  My fiance, 17 year old son and I live in a regular middle class community in Lenexa, KS in a house built in 1968.  She lives in a house in the Shawnee Heights area in Topeka that is roughly 3-4 years old with her new husband and their child together and my 2 children, ages 9 and almost 11.  My relationship with my kids has become more strained recently as the ex-wife slowly and methodically drives a wedge between my kids and I.  She constantly keeps them from me and limits any communication with them.  All the while, she gets paid every 2 weeks with my hard earned money.  In no way am I saying that I shouldn't be paying child support.  I truly think that every parent has a financial obligation to their children.  My issue with my support is that shouldn't support laws be more reflective of a modern day family?

The ex-wife lives very comfortably with her new husband. She drives a 2 year old Cadillac Escalade, lives in a less than 5 year old house as the first owners, and recently went to Hawaii, Florida, Colorado, Washington and New York on separate vacations. She carries around her designer coach purses, diamonds, hair-dos, nails and all the other pampered type things that a materialistic person has or does.  Me? I drive a Ford Fusion, albeit a 2011 but in no way a fancy car. My biggest luxury is my smartphone that I get at a discount rate as an employee of a large telecommunications company.  I have a few other toys but nothing fancy.  I love going to Royals games and if it weren't for the $40 discount coupon book, I wouldn't go to any games.  My only vacation in the past 3 years was a weekend trip to St Louis and a 4 day trip to Chicago.  We drove to both places.  I have purchased one new pair of shoes in the past 3 years and own a total of 3 pair of jeans without holes.  Every other weekend, IF the ex allows me to get my children, I make the drive on I-70 to pick them up, bring them to Lenexa for one night and then drive them home. She shares in none of the driving and I get zero credit for footing the entire gas bill of roughly $120 a month in gas and toll. Of course, this doesn't include the wear and tear on my car and the increased amount of maintenance involved.  I usually have around 20-30 in my checking account by the time I get paid again. 

She has recently taken me to court for more child support and to reduce my visitation from what is supposed to be Friday through Sunday to Saturday through Sunday every other weekend.  Shouldn't child support laws be more reflective of a modern family? She lives a very nice lifestyle. I don't think her husband should pay for my children's food, clothes and activities but she pays no bills.  He pays for her car, the house and all the bills.  Since he is an air force pilot, they also get many discounted items.  It seems as though my 1000 plus would be plenty to feed and clothe both children along with having some left over for a few activities. And remember that she also has a financial obligation so the little bit of water and electricity the children use can be paid with her share of the support. The court says that a child deserves to live the same lifestyle in divorce that they would in marriage.  However, that does not apply for a non-custodial parent.  Shouldn't children also be afforded that right when they are at the residence with the non-custodial parent?  The formula has to be changed.  It should be more indicative of a full household income and not just one parent.  The way it is now, my ex wife's husband could be a millionaire and I'd still have to pay a bunch of money and live a less than meager lifestyle.  If my support is raised, while she lives in her fancy world, I will have to sell our house, and move to an unsavory part of Kansas City.  I get a small credit for having a son here with me.  The silly thing is that while the court says my non-residential children cost 500 plus each to raise, I only get a $220 credit to raise my residential son. I get no say in any activities or anything else that has to do with my children. She would like nothing more than for me to give up my rights and me to have nothing to do with my kids. 

Sometimes I wonder who is writing these guidelines and if they have kids or any common sense.  Have they ever been a non-custodial parent?  Do they get input from all angles?  Are the people writing these formulas a bunch of jaded people who were slighted out of child support by an ex?  I just don't understand how such educated people can think these formulas are fair. 

What do you all think?  Am I wrong in my way of thinking?  Is there a way to lobby or get a bill introduced to have these laws changed?

ksmom3

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Re: Child Support Guidelines and a modern day family
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2013, 01:34:42 AM »
You sound very similar to us.  LOL.  And you dads that actually do care do get the crappy end of the deal.  My kids dad doesn't pay and doesn't care, however, my husband has always paid his child support, wants to be involved but can't because of time and money.  We also live here in Johnson County and he lives in Topeka.  Getting him every other weekend does add up even though the price is split.  She also travels a lot for business and pleasure, but her husband (they are separated) stays at her place when she is out off town with my step son and the child they have together.  My stepson comes here if he isn't in school on those days.  He is becoming a teenager and thinks we don't do enough for him and that hurts.  We have provided extra things when money is there, but bills come first for us.  She doesn't pay all her bills because we look it up and she's always being taken to court for bills.  She also gets money from her husband to help with her bills since they have a child and she is currently going through boyfriends like crazy right now is providing also.  Yes we feel bad dad can't come up for games every week especially during the same weekends we are getting him.  Also, if his functions, practices or games fall on his weekend he is responsible for getting him to them or he has to forfeit his weekend.  That's 3 trips to Topeka in one weekend and just can't afford that.  She won't trade for those weekends but is always asking to trade for others she wants.  He gets to travel with her too sometimes which is nice for him.  She just purchased him a pair of $200 shoes!  He had made some comments about all of it how she buys him almost all of his things and his dad doesn't.  So we went there, we let reminded him that we do get him things when we can and then asked him if understood that dad does pay to help take care of his needs.  He replied that he didn't because his mom told him child support was only for food!  SMH! 

bcme

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Re: Child Support Guidelines and a modern day family
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2013, 09:56:11 AM »
The real shame in all this is that the money you are paying is after taxes.  This means that the money costs you about 1.5 times what she gets.  If this money was pretax things would be much more equitable and her taxes would reflect her financial situations not yours.  This is done with alimoney whay is it niot done with Child Support?

BMull

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Re: Child Support Guidelines and a modern day family
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2013, 01:57:19 PM »
Both alimony and child support consider gross income (before taxes) to determine the amount to be paid.  I'm unsure about alimony, but with child support, taxes and something called the "dissolution burden" are subtracted from the amount to arrive at the final amount to be paid.  The reason one parent pays the other with after-tax income is because you don't purchase items for your children or pay your bills with pre-tax income.  Unfortunately, the IRS doesn't let us do that, so child support is set up to model the expenses that a normal family would have.

Alimony is considered when you do your taxes, so the spouse paying alimony subtracts it from their income, and the receiving spouse must claim the same on theirs.  Thereby, the taxed amount is somewhat equivalenced.  With child support, the amounts paid already consider taxes, so payments paid and received are not claimed on either parent's tax return.

That is my understanding of the model anyway.  I hope that helps.

bcme

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Re: Child Support Guidelines and a modern day family
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2013, 03:01:49 PM »
I understand what the law says I am suggesting [gasp] that maybe it should be changed. 

Paying with pre-tax dollars is how Alimony is paid.  Changing CS to work the same way would address so many fairness issues that get posted here....it is a simple solution to help fix what many consider a broken system. 

BMull

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Re: Child Support Guidelines and a modern day family
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2013, 06:24:07 PM »
I see where you are coming from, bcme.  But, that would mean that the actual amount of child support paid would increase because the income tax adjustments would have to be added back into the child support values.  That may appear, on the outside, to be a better deal, but there are drawbacks to this arrangement as well.  The first that comes to my mind is the fact that lending institutions actually subtract your child support payment from your gross income because it is technically a garnishment.  Since child support payments would increase, your ability to get a loan would decrease because your debt to income ratio would increase.  All the while, the other party is actually able to secure a better loan because his/her debt to income ratio looks a lot better on paper.

I've actually considered your argument before and its difficult initially to see the money flow, but both parents do contribute to child support and both parents pay with after tax income based on their respective income.  The way its done now actually does benefit people, but there seem to be a number of small issues that cause much bigger problems in actual cases.

KTM

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Re: Child Support Guidelines and a modern day family
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2014, 02:39:02 PM »
This exact same question has come into debate on this site on at least two other threads.
Refer to these links below for more on this question:

Suggested Changes / Re: Tax Treatment
« on: August 03, 2013, 10:52:35 PM »
Re-Post of Related Modified Thread

General Discussions / Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« on: August 17, 2012, 09:16:22 AM »

It would appear that Federal and State taxes need to be paid on income. I presume that in order to prevent double taxation on the same earnings there are laws in place (Federal?) with regard to Child Support which dictate who pays the tax, payor or recipient. I also presume that the team put in place to construct the Kansas Child Support Guidelines is aware of the laws and considers them in the determination of total amount of money to be paid or received in Child Support. In other words, the tax point is mute (silent) and it does not matter. Federal tax law states that the income is not taxable to the recipient. If it were taxable to the recipient than it would be tax deductible to the payor.

Kansas can not change the Federal Tax Laws. It must consider them when making it's decisions.

Additionally. THIS IS NOT AN CONSIDERATION BETWEEN MOM's AND DAD's. IT is an issue of two parents or any party responsible for raising a child in the United States of America. It does not matter what sex the payor is or what sex the recipient is. This is Federal Law.

So, I also presume that if the tax responsibility shifted than the % of income due by the payor would also change. i.e. The if the payor gets to deduct the amount of Child Support paid from a Federal Tax return than the % of income paid to the recipient would increase to cover the estimated tax burden by the recipient.

The current Federal laws make for much simpler calculations by the states because there is no need to estimate the Federal tax burden in the equation. This is because the State's goal is to create a net result where the amount of income to each party raising children to a level above what would qualify them for support benefits paid by the State of Federal Government for housing, food stamps and health care. Thus reducing the tax burden of it's residential population and businesses.