Author Topic: Recieved My First letter from DCF  (Read 22142 times)

jorgeperez

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Recieved My First letter from DCF
« on: July 06, 2012, 07:26:00 PM »
So I get a letter from DCF. A week before my divorce hearing. Called them told them about the hearing and,they had had no idea of us going to court. ALREADY .they had presumption​s of me being out of the Picture and gone. i been in my duaghters life, since she was born,and still am I get her three days a week. The social worker was surprised I responded to the letter. I will be in my duaghters life till I die, I assured her.This is my first child and Im the proudest father in the world. I want to be a father not a visitor and a child suppot payment!
 ???
Jorge Perez

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Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2012, 01:17:35 PM »
Maybe I should know, but what is DCF?  I applaud you for being proactive, and for being a supportive father (not just financially)!  Unfortunately for fathers you must stay proactive to stay involved.  Fathers are steamrolled by the system every day because they simply assumed they would be granted parenting time.  Most of the time mom has the upper hand and dads are still viewed as cash cows.  It is slowly starting to change though.  Most fathers on this site advocate shared custody at the very least.  If you are not familiar, shared custody is where the children live with each parent half the time (half the number of overnights).  Make sure you are getting overnight parenting time.

If you have specific questions, please post a little more information and we'll try to help.  Like, what county are you in, how old is your daughter, how long ago was the divorce, etc.

jorgeperez

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Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2012, 05:34:56 PM »
Hi there thanks for your support.Im in kansas,And DCF is the Dept. Of Children and Families the new name given to child support here ,My duaghter is 2 and half Our divorce hearing is july 12, uncontested.And in the parenting plan I proposed It stipulates Joint Physical custody, wicth I hope means the same as over nites,on days I get my duaghter about 3 and a half days a week, and every other weekend.And thats what I been doing since I had to leave my house 2 moths ago, is staying proactive in my little girls life, And will continue to do so. Ill keep you guys posted. I can sure use some more feed back. ttyl.
Jorge Perez

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Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2012, 10:42:18 PM »
I don't recall the Kansas statute, but custody is actually defined.  Joint physical custody can be anything from one overnight visit to nearly half time.  Shared physical custody isn't even defined, but orders are set every day which call for "shared custody."  Basically, if your situation permits, you would want to ask for half the overnights, period.  This is done, usually, by either alternating weeks, or Mon/Tues + every other weekend or Wed/Thurs + every other weekend.  There are plenty of other ways to do it though.

Speaking strictly about child support, there is a drastic reduction in child support for shared custody.  This is a recent change to the guidelines, but shared parents take on a much higher financial obligation.  There are plenty of parents working to increase the credit for parents who have custody very near to shared - please read more about this on other threads on this site (document repository is a good starting place).

Education is key for just about everyone.  Attorneys are paid to know the laws and get you the best deal, but attorneys aren't always the most knowledgeable.  Talk to many of them and compare their answers to your research.  Attorneys are business people too who are out to make a very good living.  Occasionally they will tell you something just to get your business.  Once the dust settles, you're only left with a very large bill.  Just learn as much as you can to avoid a problem.

jorgeperez

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Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2012, 12:39:45 PM »
Hi I got a question.Since when does child support send an attorney to monitor a divorce hearing? that was a voice mail I recieved from meredith conklin of dcf in kansas that she ll  send an attoney to my divrce hearing.and do they enforce health care? for the child becuase she sure is stressing health care for my child.I mean This divorce is a life changing event for me and i just had a kidney removed in sept 2011 and now Im no longer covered on my wifes health care plan for not being in the house hold . But my job offers a medical benefits through AETNA And if I need to I will add my duaghter and my self to that.Im Becuase Im really wanting  shared residency and custody of my child so is child support going to fight me on this.Am I being steam rolled? what are my rights?
Jorge Perez

KSDad

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Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2012, 05:33:57 PM »
Jorge it's pretty typical for any case where the DCF is involved to have an attorney represent mom.  They will never represent a Dad and they are only interested in getting maximum child support so the state doesn't have to provide benefits like insurance and food. 
They are most likely there to see how much is in your pocket and see how much of it they can get transferred to mom.  The only thing you can do is do what guru and many others here say and learn the laws, calculate your own child support using either the free calculator found on this site, or dig in the books and do it on paper.  The more you know about your own case, the less you'll be taken advantage of - and you will be taken advantage of.

If your girl doesn't have insurance, someone should be covering her, either you or your ex.  Usually they will go with whoever can provide the insurance cheaper or whoever has typically been providing it.

As far as your rights here - you need to your shared custody ordered immediately.  Do not talk about child support and custody in the same sentence because the courts say they're not related, which is complete bullshit.  But when you make your argument for shared custody, only talk about what is best for your daughter.  Child support will change accordingly after custody has changed.  It sounds like you pretty much have shared custody since you have every other weekend and 3 overnights/week.  Actually you might just have primary residency, which means she should be paying you!!!  You better put a pencil to how much time you have because it can make a HUGE difference in child support.

Don't sell your soul in court and never back down.  Stay involved, keep up on your support, if mom decides to be a complete bitch about everything, drag her ass right into court.  Never agree to case management because many have gotten screwed in that process.  That's all for now.

jorgeperez

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Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2012, 07:46:34 PM »
Went to my divorce hearing on thursday Of course that child support attorney was there,And the judge instucted us to work out something with her (DCF) >:(  becuase of the assistance my ex is getting it is necessary for child suppot to work the numbers out I think thats bull. She jotted down the times, I wanted to have my duaghter.I emailed her a copy of my domestic relations form. She kept a copy of my child support work order but said she would look it over.Couldnt the judge just ruled out child support all together since me and my ex have agreed on the parenting plan.If a family got any type of assistance in the past,from the state they get it back in child support. thinking about it,I should get a lawer. :-\   
Jorge Perez

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Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2012, 09:30:10 PM »
It's pretty typical for a judge to try to let everyone go work on their problems, and then bring the disagreements back to him for review.  So he wants the DCF to earn their keep and go use up our tax dollars.  You can rebut anything she says, but I think you should work your own numbers and make sure she's including all that alimony.

The judge may not have been able to rule on the parenting time/custody because the motion filed was with regard to child support (I assume).  So, you should be able to file a simple motion to change parenting time/custody.  Your ex and her atty sign it, you walk into the judge's office and get a signature, and you can file it.  It's that easy when you have an agreement.  By federal law, he has to sign it unless he has evidence showing he shouldn't do so.

jorgeperez

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Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2012, 11:16:36 PM »
Novaseeker wrote about how child support really works. It’s something every man needs to read:

The main problem with the CS regime is that people are generally unaware how it really works. They assume it works one way, but really don’t understand the disparate impact of how it actually works. In effect, it is an additional tax, full stop, on the father which is paid to the mother on a tax-free basis. It really doesn’t matter how much you make, the tax rate is basically the same, the way the statutory formulas/guidelines generally work. People think it’s based on “income share”, because that’s how the statute is worded, and that’s how it was peddled when the CS rules were changed, but as you’ll see below, it’s really a flat tax on the father’s income regardless of income share.

Here are some examples, just to clarify. Let’s assume a child support calculator that is 15% of pre-tax income for one child.

Example One
=========
H income = 100k
W income = 100k
Total household income = 200k
Total support amount is 15% of 200k, which is 30k. H’s share of total income is 50%, so H pays ex-W 15k, or 15% of his pre-tax income.

Let’s look at what happens when we change the income levels.

Example Two
=========
H income = 100k
W income = 50k
Total household income = 150k
Total support amount is 15% of 150k, which is 22,500. H’s share of income is 66.67%, so H pays ex-W 66.67% of 22,500, which is …. 15k, or 15% of his pre-tax income.

Ok. What happens when ex-W earns a lot more than H?

Example Three
H income = 50k
W income = 100k
Total household income = 150k
Total support amount is 15% of 150k, which is 22,500. H’s share of income is 33.34%, so H pays ex-W 33.34% of 22,500, which is 7500. 7500 is, you guessed it, 15% of H’s pre-tax income.

The way it works is that the father pays a flat rate of his income to the mother no matter what. The actual amount of dollars that flow depends on income share, which means that a guy in example three pays less actual dollars, but the dollars that he does pay are the same % of his pre-tax income as the guys earning twice as much in examples one and two. It’s the same percentage of income no matter what. It’s a flat tax, plain and simple, which is then paid to Mom on a tax-free basis.

CS payments are invisible from the tax perspective, which, in effect, means that the tax impact is terribly disproportionate. Dad doesn’t get any deduction for CS payments. They’re treated as if they were rent or gasoline (except they are not variable — you can’t reduce the cost as you can with rent or gasoline by moving or driving less). And Mom receives them tax free — these payments are not reported on her tax return and are generally invisible. And, as the original post points out, they are made with after-tax dollars, so the actual “effect on income” is much, much higher than 15% — i.e., it’s much more than 15% of the take-home pay of Dad. If Dad in example one has take home pay of, say 60k, 15k of that goes to CS, which is 25% of his take-home pay being transferred to his ex-wife on a tax-free basis to her on an ongoing basis. And, again, that doesn’t even take into account the health care premiums, the college savings account requirements, the life insurance premiums, and so on, that one is required to maintain in the typical decree. At the end of the day, this is a huge, huge wealth transfer from men to women, and it takes place on a completely unreported basis because, again, these payments don’t count for tax purposes, so they are not figured in Mom’s income. Flatly put, it’s a big, big scam, but if you complain about it, you’re instantly denigrated as a deadbeat supporting jackass who hates women and children. It’s a system that has been well designed by feminists to enslave men to their ex-wives, in practice.

Jorge Perez

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Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2012, 06:50:29 PM »
While I agree with this article, in part, the issue of taxes is not entirely correct.  While it is true that child support aims to take a portion of the gross income (which varies with total combined income level), taxes are assessed correctly.

The income proportion which parents "supposedly" allocate to their children is based on national and KS data.  All of these data can be found on this site in the "document repository" topic.  All of these models base their values of the huge assumption that the family is intact and everyone is wealthy and all is good.  I don't necessarily agree with this, but I'm simply presenting the approach that KS has taken.  KS then applies what is called the "dissolution burden" factor which tries to account for the establishment of another home.  Personally, I think this factor is way too low and there is very minimal data telling us where it came from.  There are equations available to calculate what the dissolution factor is, but there is not data telling us where the equation came from.  That needs to change.

Taxes - both parents are responsible for the financial needs of children.  The KS approach is to assume spending is commensurate with gross income and each parent provides a portion of child support based on what percentage of the family income they earn.  Parents cannot spend their gross income because there are taxes taken from the paycheck.  You cannot pay child support with money already taken for taxes.  Therefore, the child support tables take into account that as combined income increases, the tax bracket increases.  So percentage of gross income for child support decreases slightly (I'll emphasize slightly) for higher incomes.  So, why does dad pay tax on his child support but mom doesn't have to report it?  That's because the funds that dad us paying child support with have already been taxed.  The money that mom is supposed to put into the pot has also been taxed.  If mom were to report this as income and uncle sam took his share, child support would be double taxed.  We could all petition the state to make child support payments tax deductible, and I would agree with that, but theoretically, an intact family would not get the same treatment so it wouldn't be fair.

BUT, did you know that when you go to get a loan they are required to ask you about your child support?  Did you know that even with great credit, your loan amount will be reduced because your income is reduced due to the child support payment?  Do you think married families are asked how much they spend on their children?  NOPE!  This is completely unfair to child support payors.  It is a built-in penalty that even though you could afford a nicer home, and even though, your credit is awesome, the interest rate you may get will be worse because your debt:income ratio is now higher.  I'm amazed few people have never complained about this.

KSDad

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Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2012, 10:39:45 PM »
Hmm, good information here.  I'm glad I now know how child support in Kansas is supposed to work.  I think it's a bunch of crap.  Just because I work my ass off and get a raise at work doesn't mean my children need anything more.  Maybe I have decided to put that into their college fund - that's all on me.  Why should the state decide where that extra money goes.  For all they know, I dontate even more to charity or repair my old home with the extra income  All they know is it needs to change hands from mom to dad and they wash their hands of the whole deal.  After that, they never track what mom does with it or if the kids ever see it.  I can assure you in my case they don't.

Guru, I know exactly what you mean about getting loans and having to reduce my income because of child support.  I never thought of it from your perspective, but you are absolutely RIGHT!  Lenders never ask married couples what they spend on their kids, so who gave them the right to ask about child support?  Any ideas about how to get this law changed?

jorgeperez

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Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2012, 02:22:13 AM »
Hey you guys thanks for the advice.As to The Child support attorney at our divorce we go back the 25th she emailed me and my Ex and came up with me having to pay $116.00 with the 15% adjustment for parenting time according to her Bradly software , My ex will have our duaghter 53% and I will have 47% what happend to 50/50? My ex probably got her to put in the decree  that she would be claiming our duaghter on her  tax return.Solely. Dude my ex doesnt even have a Job! should I disagree with that or just go with it.
Jorge Perez

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Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2012, 06:30:09 PM »
Well, the guidelines clearly say "nearly equal residency."  This is based purely on the number of monthly overnights you have.  How did you calculate that?  I'd say if you have 47%, you should ask for the shared residency treatment.  The reason is because there's virtually no cost difference to you if you have your kids 50% of the time vs 47% of the time.  We all know that.  But getting a judge to agree with you is another thing.  It will take a good argument on your part and I might recommend you hire an attorney to get that done.

It will be a lot easier if you fight this right now, than later down the road.  Judges like to maintain the status quo so if you usually just get the 15% adjustment, that's probably what they'll stick with unless there's a change of custody.  If you get hosed, and end up getting only the pathetic 15% adjustment, you may want to wait about 6 months, build a case, then ask for an additional overnight so you have 50% and they you will HAVE to have the shared residency treatment.

Of course, if your ex will simply agree to the shared residency treatment, there is no fight and it will be ordered regardless of the DCF.  If your ex doesn't want to agree, then surely she will know you intend to seek shared custody later and you will both be drug right back into court later for it.  It would simply be best to go ahead and do it now.

jorgeperez

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Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2012, 10:33:03 PM »
Hey Guru you hit every thing right on the head. All I got was the lousy %15 and when I requested the shared residency treatment. The child atty and the judge kinda looked at each other in shock! There was like a 10 second puase. from the judge. He asked my ex what she thought and she of coures didnt even know what it meant. Then the judge said I was asking him to put a label on something thats the same as joint. and that the child support work order wasnt the one outlined for shared residency. Bull shit 47/53 that is status quote if ever heard it. i'LL wait a while like you sed guru. And get another overnite and go back to court.But Im now divorced and begin paying child support already in july and have joint custody of my little princess. Thanks.
Jorge Perez

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Re: Recieved My First letter from DCF
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2012, 11:21:01 AM »
I'm sorry to hear things didn't quite go as you would have liked.  I'm also not surprised by the order.  Judges and attorneys usually shy away from the shared residency treatment because they somehow feel that it's wrong.  There's nothing wrong with shared residency at all.  It's just the perception that when a judge orders it, there can be a large reduction in child support that changes hands.  The guidelines should not change the child support adjustment from 15% for 47% parenting time, to over 50% adjustment for 50% parenting time.  The math doesn't work!  I know for a fact that there are plenty of parents that will be fighting the Kansas Child Support Committee starting in 2013 to change the way parenting time adjustments work.  You are absolutely right that it's bullshit right now.

I have questions:
1.) how did you calculate your parenting time?
2.) how much did you get ordered to pay?