Author Topic: Impact on Child Support, when Payee is going out of JOB (Read 26140 times)

stiwary2002 · « **on:** November 03, 2016, 09:29:59 AM »

I have Shared Parenting Time with Kids after Mediation/Case Management/Supervision by Social Worker/Co-Parent/Family Counselling/GAL.
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My kids are 16+ and 15+.
Currenly I am paying Child Support to My EX to cover ALL direct expenses.
I am also supposed to Pay Health Insurance to my kids.
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I have got a message from my current employer that my contract is going to expire on Dec31--2016 so looks like I may be out of job for some time.
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My question:

(1) What are the chances that my current Obligations will be waived off until I have another JOB.
(2) What if I get less paying JOB than will Child support and HEalth Insurance Obligations will be re-calculated?

Thanks for any feedback you can offer.

stiwary2002 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 07, 2016, 02:27:54 PM »

Can I request to please help me on my question?

Thanks in advance,

Best regards,

Guru · « **Reply #2 on:** November 11, 2016, 04:15:27 PM »

The issue you have is not uncommon at all. Parents lose jobs and insurance costs change all the time. How this will be handled for you will depend heavily on where you live and what judge you have. The only information I can offer you is my own experience and what I've heard. I would highly recommend you take advantage of an attorney referral service through your local bar association or through the KS bar association. Those services are setup to get you in contact with an attorney to answer your questions for a minimal fee. In my area the cost is $20 for a 30 min telephone conversation with an attorney. You ask the questions and the attorney will answer them. Your questions here are perfect for that forum because they depend on how the judge "typically" rules.

Usually when income changes a parent must first show they are actively seeking work or that they involuntarily lost their job. If that is not shown, the judge can impute your wages from your previous job just as if you made the same income. Personally, I don't believe its a very smart thing to do, but that's what judges are allowed to do by the guidelines. The worst that can happen is they deny your request or tell you to check back after you've searched for work for a few months. If your new job makes a lower wage, the new, lower, wage should be used to calculate child support.

If I were in your shoes here's what I would do. Assuming you are trying to find a new job right now and don't end up finding one by Jan 2nd. First, prepare your motion and child support worksheet assuming your new expenses and your loss of income. You may have to pay cobra insurance costs or you may look to Obamacare. You should use minimum wage as your income. After your job does indeed terminate your contract, file your motion to decrease child support. What this does is leaves a paper trail that you need relief because your expenses have changed by more than 10% (that is a requirement to motion for change of child support).

If you do get a job that starts on Jan 2nd, you should prepare your motion have have it heard very soon after you start your new job. Use your new income and insurance costs.

Please keep this in mind - KS law was changed (http://kslegislature.org/li/b2015_16/statute/023_000_0000_chapter/023_030_0000_article/023_030_0005_section/023_030_0005_k/) so that a motion to change child support will only become effective the first day of the month following a motion to change. So, if your motion is filed the 2nd of January or the 30th of January, it will not be effective until Feb 1st. This may take some of the pressure off to quickly file. You will essentially have the month of January to do it.

stiwary2002 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 15, 2016, 12:47:52 PM »

Thank you for your reply.

I am applying lot of places by eMail and/or on-line.

So do i need tot ake the print out of those eMail in the court to prove that i have been applying for long time and still no luck. What sort of evidences i can prove them.

Also what are odds that Judge will do the adjustment, i just want to get a feeling here.

Thank you again for your reply.

Also i request others to share their experience, if they can.

Guru · « **Reply #4 on:** November 30, 2016, 01:17:02 PM »

I think it would be sufficient proof that you've been looking for work if you simply provide a few applications and things like that. You should redact any personal info other than your name because some of it may become public record. Protect yourself.

I think if your income has dropped for more than 30-60 days and you've been unsuccessful at finding work, the judge would have no choice but to grant you a decrease in support. He will likely warn you that when you get work, you have an obligation to tell the other parent (and you should). Expect to be right back in court to increase support when that occurs. So, I think your chances are very good if your argument and reason is sound.

It will cost you a $50 filing fee or something like that. Motions to change child support are hit with a fee usually. I guess this is to deter people from changing all the time. You can file your own motion, but you will need to include the appropriate paperwork. If you'll be doing this yourself, let me know and I can share with you the things you will need. Otherwise the court may throw your motion out.

stiwary2002 · « **Reply #5 on:** April 26, 2017, 09:49:21 AM »

Thank you sir,

Here is the update in last 5 days.

I had a hearing with hearing Officer. I provided my Income Tax, Short DRA document etc to other attorney.

After lot of arguments, hearing officer considered my salary 25K <<actuals>> and ordered reduction in child support, effective from May01 so that means I need to pay precious couple of months as per the old order.

Now other attorney has challenged this decision to take it further in the court. Also other attorney has asked me to provide me the below documents as part of another discovery::

1. All documents in support of your allegation pertaining to diminished income capacity from historical income in excess of $100,000 per year to $30,000/year, including but not limited to:
a. copies of paystubs from January 14, 2017 to date;
b. current job description;
c. current resume;
d. a list of monthly recurring expenses and outstanding liabilities;
e. list of all employment applications submitted since 01/01/2017 and disposition of same;
f. copies of any “financial account” maintained at any “financial institution” in your name alone or jointly with any other person or persons or as trustee, custodian, guardian, or where someone holds funds on your behalf, or in which you have had an interest in the last three years including, without limitation, all bank statements, canceled checks, reconciliations, deposit slips, records and receipts, check stubs, check registers, copies of checks and other records and correspondence pertaining thereto.

My response::

a). I have already said that I have NO job further than why the hell she is asking same thing in a different way.
b) and c) and e)...not sure why the hell she needs this but I have no problem.

d). Not sure why she needs a detailed expenses and liabilities.

f). This is most critical. This has been now 3+ years that I was divorced.

Why should I provide all these financial details to them?

Need a good advice on this point nbr e), Please.

Thanks & regards,

Guru · « **Reply #6 on:** May 02, 2017, 11:12:05 PM »

Firstly, it sounds like the HO granted your request for reduced child support - a win for you. Attorneys don't like losing to a pro se, so they will probably run you through the ringer a little.

I'm uncertain what you mean by "challenge." A HO decision can be appealed to a district court judge simply to review the use of discretion and the evidence at hand. I don't find this to be an open ticket for tons of more discovery. It sounds as if this attorney is trying to pull a fast one and get themselves a bunch more evidence.

From what I know, an appeal is not an opportunity to restart the case and get all new evidence in hopes of a better decision. It is merely a review of what the judge or HO had at the time to make the decision and look for procedural errors. So, I would be inclined to remit a letter to the attorney that this is an appeal and as such you do not feel compelled to provide new evidence.

The reason the attorney wants all this stuff is they are on a fishing expedition to catch you in some kind of lie or loop hole. I would attend the appeal with all the same evidence you had and argue that for civil cases it is your understanding that is not a retrial. If the judge wants to set your case for evidentiary hearing, he may do so, but then you could provide all that info (and request exactly the same of the other party).

Guru · « **Reply #7 on:** May 02, 2017, 11:20:12 PM »

When I see items like (f), it really cries "I don't have a case, so I'm fishing." I've seen it before. I actually had to provide similar information. But, you know what I did? I copied and pasted the stuff right into a "request for production" and served that right back on her. My expenses were my time to print 100 pages. Her expenses were $5,000 for her attorney to review my stuff and review all the stuff I requested. Even if you don't think you need the information, request it anyway. Case and point - legal matters are a poker game most of the time.

At this point, I think this attorney has had ample opportunity for discovery process. If the judge orders you to provide something, you should request a continuance for at least 60 days to dig all this stuff up and to request the same (and even more) of her. Responses to discovery allow 30 days. Chapter 60 of KSA is where you should read up on this.

stiwary2002 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 04, 2017, 10:35:37 PM »

Thank you sir for your beautiful reply. The other party attorney is pulling the money from her client but wasting my time.

I will provide them everything but none of my assets or liabilities to her. I have decided that and I will go up to supreme court for that and the reason is my last discovery took place in March'2015 and they can not do the same shit every year. They have NEVER EVER found anything against me. I also had EQUAL PARENTING TIME after three years of fight in the past.

Anyway, in short I am also trying my best for the JOB and I am sure that I will get the job soon. Although I am without job since January-18-2017.

Thanks for your support.

My next hearing is going to happen sometime next month. One interesting question comes here is, what will happen if I get the job before NEXT hearing date in this matter and as you know next hearing is about the other attorney appealed the order of hearing officer to the judge in the court. I will like to hear something from you on this.

Guru · « **Reply #9 on:** May 04, 2017, 11:04:51 PM »

Ha, the other attorney has most likely challenged this simply because they anticipate you gaining employment by that time. If that is the case, I would imagine you'll have to fess up that you got the job and here's your new info. I would not, however, provide that data any sooner than the hearing. Just hand it over 5 minutes before the hearing. At the hearing request a continuance. You want to make sure you take credit for the months you've been unemployed.

I've seen so many parents in your situation where the attorney requests everything under the sun, and you don't even make them work for it. If you write a letter objecting to the new evidence citing that this is an appeal, you'll have another hearing to attend, but the attorney will learn he/she will have to earn things. You also want to file your request for production of all these things too. What I have done in the past is objected to the production, but then if the judge grants the production to the other attorney, I will immediately file exactly the same request against the attorney. You know it will be granted because you now have a court order telling you it's perfectly fine. So, the other attorney cannot object. If they do, you ask for your travel and time from work because a ruling was already made in the matter. You'll have to trust me that it goes a long way to play some offense.

Continuances are your friend. Learn to love them. They keep your game in play and cost the other side more money which makes them more agreeable. I've played enough to know how it works.

stiwary2002 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 16, 2017, 08:37:15 PM »

Thank you for your reply.

I got the job and joined. Court has confirmed the hearing date for Jun06.
Now this is the funny situation for me. The previous order is NOT confirmed and I got another job after four months.

I agree with you that other attorney is dragging the case so they can get the same money from me for all the period.

These bastards are MONEY eater.

Not sure what should be my strategy on JUN06.

Should I share the job news with them or should I wait? I know this is not going to be hidden for always but it is a matter of time only.

Please share your thoughts.

Thanks,

Guru · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2017, 10:03:35 PM »

So, what I hear you saying is Guru was right?

I'm not tooting my own horn, I'm just hoping others learn from your experience. Attorneys will drag their feet every time if it will help them win. Every single criminal attorney will continue a case several times because witnesses move or forget or get lost in the shuffle. In this case, they wanted to wait for you to get a job.

There is actually a section of the guidelines that addresses parents who attempt to hide income or not disclose it. I think it's called "failure to disclose." Essentially, the rule makes you impute your income back to the day you got your new job. So if it's October when they figure it out and you go back to court, they would rule that your income changed in May, so you'll then owe the difference.

I can't really give you advice, but what here's what I would do.

Do not provide a thing before the hearing.
Go to the court transcriptionist and get a transcription of the hearing which determined that your CS payment was reduced. Hopefully it was requested to set it retroactive back to the day you lost your job. There is a statute that CS changes are effective the first day of the month following the hearing - or something like that. You should double check that.
During the hearing, you can mention that you just got a new job. They will probably attempt to calculate it on the fly during the hearing. Avoid that.
You should ask for a 3 week continuance to consult with counsel (have a date in mind). Whether you do or not is up to you. You can use eFamilyTools to calculate it and present that worksheet to make sure theirs is right. The point is you don't want them calculating it in the court room because you might get hosed. Remind them that regardless of the order they make on June 6, it will not be effective until July 1 by statute, so they should grant your continuance based on that.
You absolutely want to make sure you get credit for the months you were not employed. That was the whole point of your motion and you have a ruling that CS would be reduced. So, make sure that all the math works out and shows that you should not have the same CS payment during those months.
Advocate very strongly for yourself and filing a motion to reduce support because you didn't have income. If the circumstances were turned and your income increased, the other side would absolutely want to take credit for every single day you made the higher wage.

stiwary2002 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 26, 2017, 08:27:15 PM »

Yes Guru, Thank you for all your details.

But think the time has come when we need to start suing these attorneys. These bastards need to be punished only than there is a possibility that things may change.

stiwary2002 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 06, 2017, 10:30:50 PM »

Just my update::

I disclosed about my job in the court. Other attorney was so stupid that she asked for continuance and it was granted due to the fact that I did no oppose.

Than other attorney also brought the issue of Bank statement and this time other attorney gave a new reason saying she doe not know if I have got any severance package or something like that. Judge also said to work with other attorney and give her for what she is asking. So I decided to give her 6 months of statements.

Other attorney is also making a noise of "QDRO document for 401K". So just you know, QDRO document was prepared and delivered to other party in year 2014 in the court and it was also documented. After this I also have in writing in eMail where I clearly told other party they will not get this money until they sign this document.

So anyway my question here is "Other party did not sign the document for three years, am I supposed to give her that money or not?"

Let me know, if any one knows the answer.

Thanks,

Guru · « **Reply #14 on:** June 09, 2017, 10:18:14 PM »

I think the reason the judge ultimately agreed to the continuance is because the other attorney is still seeking discovery. There has not been a ruling on the discovery until now. Most judges will grant a continuance for discovery every single time. This attorney can ask for all kinds of things every time if they are just seeking discovery.

While you are being compliant in not objecting to the continuance, you have essentially now given your bank statements away. What I would do it start working on a "request for production" to request her bank records for the past year. At the next hearing, you then ask for a continuance since you have now also filed for discovery and have not received that. It's a 30 day process. Take a look at a chapter 60 of statutes for procedure for discovery. Or basically just copy exactly what the other attorney has done. When the judge asks why, you say "We have no idea if she has another job on the side that is paying her on the side more than the job she's claiming. What if she's been paid a disability benefit that we don't even know about. If we're going to play the what if game with my income, we also need to play the what if game with her income. Two way street"

The reason I always encourage parents to stand up for themselves is because that is precisely when my case started to turn in my favor. When I took the reins and started playing offense, I not only started winning, I started to see the other side scale their plays back big time. They did this because they knew I wouldn't make it a walk in the park for them. Since you are pro se, you have this in your favor.

I'm not sure about the QDRO, but retirement plans are not considered "wages" which would determine a child support payment by the guidelines. There is come discussion of retirement in the "cafeteria plans" section. This really sounds more like spousal support than child support.

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Author Topic: Impact on Child Support, when Payee is going out of JOB (Read 26140 times)

stiwary2002

Impact on Child Support, when Payee is going out of JOB

stiwary2002

Re: Impact on Child Support, when Payee is going out of JOB

Guru

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stiwary2002

Re: Impact on Child Support, when Payee is going out of JOB

Guru

Re: Impact on Child Support, when Payee is going out of JOB

stiwary2002

Re: Impact on Child Support, when Payee is going out of JOB

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Re: Impact on Child Support, when Payee is going out of JOB

Guru

Re: Impact on Child Support, when Payee is going out of JOB

stiwary2002

Re: Impact on Child Support, when Payee is going out of JOB

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Re: Impact on Child Support, when Payee is going out of JOB

stiwary2002

Re: Impact on Child Support, when Payee is going out of JOB

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stiwary2002

Re: Impact on Child Support, when Payee is going out of JOB

stiwary2002

Re: Impact on Child Support, when Payee is going out of JOB

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